>My first thought after reading this was “uh yeah… ‘Religion is the opiate of the masses’” and also “damn, and everybody thinks that I’m the only one who ‘preaches to the choir.’”>

not sure about everyone, but you do seem preocuppied with it.

>I do differ with your views, but at least what you have to say is interesting. :)>

Good. and thanks for your interest.

>I submit the following, however:>

>My personal experience with the religious mythology known as “Christianity” has had value to me. Instead of being a largely oppressive force, it actually helped me in a period of my life where I needed socialization and some structure. I’ve grown to reject a lot of that structure, but it was a useful tool nonetheless.>

I find htat respectable but are you saying you learned from mistakes that you think you made or learned from false beliefs in order to gain something else? i.e. you found it useful for what?

>The comment you’ve left is a bit too “black and white.” I don’t think it factors in the reality that science and faith can be reconciled, though doesn’t leave one with a necessarily literal interpretation of the Bible. Faith and Reason aren’t necessarily mutually exclusive concepts.>

no doubt about that. and I did not mean to suggest otherwise, that is, i’m in agreement with you. My question about adding “science” to what the poster of the message stated was meaning to find out if he thought there was a difference in faith as to religion or science. I found his remarks to convey nothing of that and what i think is that science is fundamentally faith, and always posed for correction and improvement; but it is faith in theory (which would take us on discussion very far from this topic)

So I agree there is nothing mutually exclusive or necessary regarding faith and reason, which is part of science…i believe it is part of religion or can be if its not already. (faith and reason)

>In fact, that’s one of my massive beefs with contemporary American Christianity… the false teaching that one or the other reigns supreme.>

I know its a false problem, but keeps them busy and the dopes that follow them with something to cling to.

> The reality is that they should be complimentary.>

See above my last statement..but moving on

Comtempory teaching, yes, but perhaps read St. Augustine and other elders (but i strongly suggest in my opinion to stay away from the scholastic if your not familiar with the ancient philosophers) and you my find some interesting teachings. Dun Scotus is one i would emphasize.

>Personally, I’d like my Faith to be as small as necessary. I dislike uncertainty and anti-Reason. Faith in ignorance is still Faith, but it’s obviously false Faith. I’ll pass on willful ignorance.>

Agreed. but for me it has not been such a struggle to demarcate between faith and reason, and to me, like Socrates said, i know how my ignorance, i know myself and how stupid I am, but the wisdom i pass on is cojoined with the wisdom that it may not be wisdom but hogwash. but thats ok and i think honest.

Gotta go, thanks for your time.

I dunno if I’d label a juxtaposition of a song about fascism from The Producers with the trailer from Jesus Camp as being a “parody” but I’m kinda being a bit of a curmudgeon here. Typically, a parody is a bit more involved than soundtrack replacement. :)

If you replaced the voices in the trailer with contextually interesting juxtapositions (ie.- clips from a speech about fascism by someone else while the camp director is talking), then you’d have something a fair bit more interesting or engaging. Another idea would be to re-edit the video to fit the music closely. If you give the idea another go, post a link and I’ll be happy to give it a looksie. :)

The idea of doing a parody of Jesus Camp is kinda interesting, but the actual content of the trailer itself is pretty shocking/engaging. I kinda think it’d be hard to top the original content. You’ve started down that path though, so why not give it another go?

I think the belt-buckle graphic that you have posted on your page speaks volumes.

I do differ with your views, but at least what you have to say is interesting. :)

I submit the following, however:

My personal experience with the religious mythology known as “Christianity” has had value to me. Instead of being a largely oppressive force, it actually helped me in a period of my life where I needed socialization and some structure. I’ve grown to reject a lot of that structure, but it was a useful tool nonetheless.

The comment you’ve left is a bit too “black and white.” I don’t think it factors in the reality that science and faith can be reconciled, though doesn’t leave one with a necessarily literal interpretation of the Bible. Faith and Reason aren’t necessarily mutually exclusive concepts.

In fact, that’s one of my massive beefs with contemporary American Christianity… the false teaching that one or the other reigns supreme. The reality is that they should be complimentary.

Personally, I’d like my Faith to be as small as necessary. I dislike uncertainty and anti-Reason. Faith in ignorance is still Faith, but it’s obviously false Faith. I’ll pass on willful ignorance.

Ok, and if you add science to your complaint, whats the difference?

>> Regardless of the current pope’s duplicitous talk about reason, faith and religion are the opposite of truth, wisdom, and justice and completely incompatible with logic.>>

This is nonsense. As a corrective elemenatry extaction of your statement; Logic is not truth, it does show the way though. But to place it, and the other terms in opposition to the others in your schema, like reason… is a bit silly

The time is long past to stop focusing on symptoms and myriad details and finally seek lasting solutions. Until we address the core causes of the millennia of struggle and suffering that have bedeviled humanity, these repeating cycles of evil will never end.

Why do religious leaders and followers so often participate in and support blatant evil?

History is replete with examples of religious leaders and followers advocating, supporting, and participating in blatant evil. Regardless of attempts to shift or deny blame, history clearly records the widespread crimes of Christianity. Whether we’re talking about the abominations of the Inquisition, Crusades, the greed and genocide of colonizers, slavery in the Americas, or the Bush administration’s recent deeds and results, Christianity has always spawned great evil. The deeds of many Muslims and the state of Israel are also prime examples.

The paradox of adherents who speak of peace and good deeds contrasted with leaders and willing cohorts knowingly using religion for evil keeps the cycle of violence spinning through time. Why does religion seem to represent good while always serving as a constant source of deception, conflict, and the chosen tool of great deceivers? The answer is simple. The combination of faith and religion is a strong delusion purposely designed to affect one’s ability to reason clearly. Regardless of the current pope’s duplicitous talk about reason, faith and religion are the opposite of truth, wisdom, and justice and completely incompatible with logic.

Religion, like politics and money, creates a spiritual, conceptual, and karmic endless loop. By their very nature, they always create opponents and losers which leads to a never ending cycle of losers striving to become winners again, ad infinitum. This purposeful logic trap always creates myriad sources of conflict and injustice, regardless of often-stated ideals, which are always diluted by ignorance and delusion. The only way to stop the cycle is to convert or kill off all opponents or to end the systems and concepts that drive it.

Think it through, would the Creator of all knowledge and wisdom insist that you remain ignorant by simply believing what you have been told by obviously duplicitous religious founders and leaders? Would a compassionate Creator want you to participate in a system that guarantees injustice and suffering to your fellow souls? Isn’t it far more likely that religion is a tool of greedy men seeking to profit from the ignorance of followers and the strife it constantly foments? When you mix religion with the equally destructive delusions of money and politics, injustice, chaos, and the profits they generate are guaranteed.

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Peace…